Treo 500 In My Hands In London!

It's already announced

http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/09/officially-anno.html

It's growing on me ... I'll withdraw my previous comments until I have a chance to play with it.
:-)
But on a side note, all one has to do is watch the 'how to' video clips over at Apple about using the iPhone to get a little envious. Even though I'm still not ready for a virtual keyboard ... it didn't look all that bad. Looking forward to giving it a personal test.

RichC - I have had an iPhone to test since its release and although it is without a doubt a beautiful device I still cannot get over the need to have a physical keyboard like that on my Treo which is both considerably easier and faster to use - particularly when wanting to use only one hand.

Cheers, A.

- No touchscreen? A HUGE backstep.
- WinOS? It's just so sad seeing Palm drowning.
- 'Large' screen is not large, it's actually smaller.
Andrew, you've stopped being objective.

But hey, it's just your blog.

Andrew, I totally agree with the keyboard...but the ease of use with pretty much everything else on the iPhone (almost) makes up for that one flaw.

As a Mac-user, I'm more worried that Palm seems to be favoring the Windows platform more and more. As a media professional, I would really like an iPhone-like screen to show off my work on the go. And as a human being, I'd like them to at least TRY and make it look purdy. =)

Alayan - you have to compare oranges with oranges. The Treo 500 is NOT meant to replace the Treo 750 or other high-end Treo but instead aims to compete with similar non-touchscreen Windows Mobile devices plus also appeal to an entirely new and much younger demographic. As more people get to play with the Treo 500 I have no doubt that their conclusion will be the same as mine - it's a terrific device and extremely appealing when offered for free by Vodafone in Europe.

Cheers, A.

The Good:
- Its thinner
- Can't beat the price. Even IPhone users would drool over this price.
- Better digital Camera
- Better software on it
- Good Screen resolution

The Bad:
- Still no Palm OS support for it
- Its thin but not thin enough (Look at IPhone's eye Candy, Nowhere near that)
- MicroSD but no SD card backward compatibility (I can still live with that though).
- New Accessories (I can live with that as there is mini USB hotsync which I actually like better than the previous hotsync connectors)

The Ugly:
- No Touch screen? Come on whats up with that?
- Speculating that there is still no Voice dialing via a blue tooth headset.

I'm probably in the minority who sees the switch to a touchscreenless device as a good thing. I'd rather be using my d-pad to operate the device than the stylus anyways, and I think Windows Mobile Standard 6 is going to do that a bit better than Professional did.

As a company, aren't you supposed to have a flagship product that attracts a lot of attention? This phone attracts more cobwebs than attention. It doesn't stand out either in its price class and has no features that distinguish it from phones that are already out. It's just a copy of existing hardware from other manufacturers. It has no must have features, uses a cumbersome operating system and isn't as thin as existing products.

And as for "attracting the young" that's just nuts. Why would any teen or 20's buyer want a dull phone when they can have an iPhone? I own a Treo but this phone leaves me cold.

Dave - I'm sorry but I disagree strongly with your view.

I believe that Palm has an excellent opportunity to successfully market the Treo 500 at a younger demographic with this new smartphone - particularly with Vodafone's and Microsoft's full marketing support across Europe.

Also, as others have pointed out, not everybody wants or can afford a $400 iPhone and in this respect the Treo 500 will be extremely competitive (particularly in the European market where Windows Mobile is well established).

Cheers, A.

eh... still not interested...

...but when are they going to come out with a new Treo for adults.

I don't want to open my laptop anymore.

How different is the TREO 500 from the Centro? If it's one and the same then I'm wondering why the sync cable is using the mini-usb instead of the standard treo cable?

I was able to play with the Centro a couple of weeks back and the sync cable I used was the standard treo cable.

You've replied 3 times on this issue Andrew, I haven't seen you do that in a while...did Palm slip you your “cut” in an envelop under one of the tables at this press event today? Or do you get your money tomorrow when they deliver your Treo 500? Joking (kind of).

The 500 does look "sturdy" and it looks like “Treo minimalism” at its best. Now that I have given my thoughts on the 500…

…You come up with some great rebuttals to your readers criticisms, however it still does not answer the main question that true Treo lovers seem to have...where’s the new flagship like Dave just asked? Yes, Palm can go after the kiddie market with this, but where’s the new toy for the adults-don’t you want to keep the people with actual purchasing power happy? It seems like everyone else are taking steps forward while Palm takes small steps back (or side stepping at best). Are we going to get a Treo 340 for the infant/early learning market before the next Treo step forward? Apple successfully challenges Palm on the overall concept of a smartphone and all Treo can come back with is the 500? Granted, the iPhone just arrive a couple of months ago and Palm might need time to gather themselves to answer this challenge, but I just don’t get the sense that Palm is even concerned. I hope I’m wrong…..

what's in a name, your response is simply rude and totally un-called for. Didn't your mother teach you better?

You can disagree with Andrew all you want, and I will defend your rights to do so. But you can not question a man's integrity without any shred of evidence just because you don't agree with his view.

Andrew is right on with his market segmentation analysis for the Treo 500. I am sure that a great majority of people out there would love to have a Lexus LS sedan but this doens't mean that Toyota should stop making the Corollas.

It looks good, and I know that photo's on the web gives you a wrong impression. As with the Treo 750, it is smaller then on photo's. But I think that this Treo may not use the name Treo, because it has not the Treo looks. If this photo was shown with no link to Palm and someone said 'this is a Sony Ericsson, look at the layout of the hardware buttons' (really, look at Sony Ericsson K810i, K770i, v630i, etc!), everyone would believe him. So this is the Centro 500v for me. Not a new Treo.

Rome....cool your jets, fanboy. It was only a joke. Did your mother ever teach you not to be such a tight-ass? Although I was joking for the most part, jokes do stem from something...in this case it stems from my assessment (and many other readers) that Andrew sticks up for Palm a little too much sometimes. No one said anything about stop reaching out to the smaller markets, but even Toyota (and every other company) upgrades its top choices...its called staying competitive. As I said before, it doesn't look as if Palm is interested with their track record since the 650 (or even the 600).

I thank you for defending my right to disagree, I mean, that's why we all post here...but don't cry because I wrote a joke to Andrew and not about you (or your mother)...

Rome: What the heck are you talking about?? I totally agree with What's in a name?. He wasn't questioning his integrity. I totally noticed the 3 posts as well. That is something Andrew hasn't done in a LONG time. I read his blog daily and he is making quite a fight for the Treo 500. If that's where Palm thinks it can rebound and make some cash, good for them. If they're wrong, hopefully they can recover.

It seems strange that when the sexiest phone out there is "all about the touchscreen", Palm would go touchless. On the other hand I think that Palm just doesn't get the rest of us. How long have I been waiting to tag ToDo list entries with multiple categories? Over a decade.

That said, at least the Treo family HAS a todo list! I cannot fathom buying an iPhone because it has no todo list, doesn't sync its Memo pad to the computer, has a non-user-replaceable battery, and doesn't handle outstanding subscription music services like Rhapsody. Throw in a real keyboard and the Treo does it for me!

IMHO, there is no market sub-segment such as "smart phone for the youth". Any one interested by a smartphone and who can afford to pay for a mobile 3G dataplan prefer (and can afford to pay for) an up-to-date device. Take example on the Apple iPhone, everyone says it is highly priced but already 1 millions iPhones are sold in just some months. I am sure no car manufacturer will never think of marketing a low cost / low end sport car to the mass, it's simply incompatible.

Now consider any other mobile manufacturer (Nokia, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, LG, HTC), each one of their new devices presents a step forward. Only Palm persists in their strategy to go backward, or to stay still at best (but this means it is regressing since others continue to progress).

Palm had a big potential to be an "Apple like" company in the mobile/smartphone market. Unfortunately, instead of focusing on developing innovative device/software with high margin, it wastes its energy trying to catch an hypothetic mass market which does not exist.

Is it really a joke? Then why the "(kind of)"? Even you admitted in your post that some of your accusation (that Andrew was doing a payola) was true.

My parents have always taught me to never question or even joke about a man's integrity and honesty, unless I have concrete proof in my hands. If that makes me a "tight-ass", so be it.

Perhaps you parents taught you differently.

>>>I am sure no car manufacturer will never think of marketing a low cost / low end sport car to the mass, it's simply incompatible.<<<

You'd better not ask Lee Iacocca, becasue he will ask you if you have heard of a low-end sports car called the Mustang that he introduced back in 1964.

I'm a Treo user from the UK. I thought I'd take a chance on the Palm 680. It specs were a lot weaker than the competition - which isn't the iPhone or the Blackberry by the way. I took the chance as it was a little different from the usual 'NoSEMo' offerings.

I regret my choice as I've had nothing but trouble with it - crappy camera, poor battery life, unstable software etc. Before I bought my Treo, I came up with a wish list of what I'd like to see in a smart phone device.

The truth is that the 500 pretty much nails it for me. The comments on this post are way off, in terms of demographic appeal. The UK market is mature and segmentation isn't always cut and dried for example teens in the UK are starting to rock Blackberry Pearls. Business men are into the cheap basic Nokia's . I'm a successful professional and the Treo 500 appeals to me more so than the 680.

I always buy SIM free so the only hold up in getting a 500 is to wait for it to become available through the Palm store or stand alone retailer.

Blake, you wrote:

>>>Rome: What the heck are you talking about?? I totally agree with What's in a name?. He wasn't questioning his integrity. I totally noticed the 3 posts as well. That is something Andrew hasn't done in a LONG time.<<<

So this is proof enough that Andrew is taking money from Palm??? Because he posted 3 times in this thread on his own blog???

Once again Rome, your only looking at pieces of my comments; i said in my last comment: "jokes do stem from something...in this case it stems from my assessment (and many other readers) that Andrew sticks up for Palm a little too much sometimes." Ultimately, I don't believe Andrew is on Palms payroll (maybe >wink-wink<), its just that Palms "crap" never stinks with him...and niether with you obviously. Even more obvious is the fact that you are a little more sensitve than most since you want to combat everyone here (unless you really are Andrew under a differnt name, hmm....) so I'm through with you (and your mother).

On to more constructive discussions, I believe Ivy's comments describe the '500' situation best.

Rome wrote :
>> You'd better not ask Lee Iacocca, becasue he will ask you if you have heard of a low-end sports car called the Mustang that he introduced back in 1964.<<<

Primo, you think about US market. I think about european market, which is quite different.

Secundo, the Mustang was successful because it was not marketed as a "me too and low-end" product, but rather as a new and unique product never offered before (to the aimed market segment of course). This is clearly not the same marketing strategy applied by Palm to the '500'

Ivy, you need to be more consistent with you analysis. You wrote:

>>>Take example on the Apple iPhone, everyone says it is highly priced but already 1 millions iPhones are sold in just some months. I am sure no car manufacturer will never think of marketing a low cost / low end sport car to the mass, it's simply incompatible.<<<

If you are thinking about the European market, then why are you using the iphone as an example? Iphone is currently only available in the U.S.

As for the Mustang example, I only pointed out the weakness in your argement of "no car manufacturer will never think of marketing a low cost / low end sport car to the mass, it's simply incompatible." Ford did, some 40+ years ago.

I have to admit that I find it quite funny that some people consider that I am being a bit too "fair" with Palm... I can positively assure you that this is absolutely not the case as I have in fact been extremely upset and frustrated with the company for quite a while.

Having said this, the fact is that playing with the Treo 500 today gave me a renewed sense of energy and belief that while Palm still has a LOT more things to fix at least I can more clearly see that they have not been sitting idle.

As I pointed out in a recent post I am the first to want to see a next generation high-end Treo smartphone ASAP but this should not detract us from the fact that the Treo 500 (and quite possibly the Palm Centro) are actually excellent entry level smartphones.

Cheers, A.

I don't get it. What does this device have that isn't already available in a Treo? Some More memory? a Better Camera?

Where is the CDMA Treo 800? I'm considering the Blackberry 8830, cause I want a new smartphone and I'm over paying verizon $400 for a Year old phone that doesn't have the latest technology.

The Treo 500 doesn't appeal to Me. I'm a tech Maven. I went to Cingular for the 650, pre-ordered and everything.

I want it all in my smartphone, the latest and greatest and all that shines, and I'm willing to pay for it. Why the Hell won't palm get a product to market already.

Can anyone one say "HTC Hermes" with the keyboard on the front?

As a smartphone it surely competes. As you all know every mobile phone manufacturing company has PDA phones and ordinary smartphones. Palm used to call their PDA phones as smartphones and didn't have a product to compete with other companies smartphones. Now it built one. You can't expect from a company to always build "500+ euros" devices as it may have to address to a youth category.. You don't like this device ? Fine, just wait for the treo 800 to come out and give the guys a break.

Charles, I would say "HTC Iris"

OK, for an entry level device aimed at new palm users....not too shabby. But you have to serve the high end users. I need software stability and OUT THE BOX sync capabilities with various platforms (that is where RIM has the edge)....for fun....I carry an iPhone. Now, if I can only get my $200 beans back.....

Interesting, I have a HTC 9000 now, and to be honest, this treo apeals me greatly. I think it looks really good, and I know the 9000 has more features, but I don't really use them actualy... The thing I care for most is speed, so I'll have to wait a bit until some reports of that come in.

500, Foleo, 680, 7xW... I feel what a lot of others are feeling - where is the next generation professional platform IN PALM OS?

Yes, I've heard they are working on the next platform with Linux, but hey, if they can do all this other stuff "right now", why not throw us a bone too?

And please, can we stop confusing PDA with "smartphone"? For the power Treo user, the emphasis is on the PDA functionality. Adding a phone to it was just a matter of convenience in not having to carry additional separate devices, as well as leveraging the convergence of the phone/contact and other PIM relational aspects. But, we are PDA users, while the tweens and teens are phone users are more interested in cool phone features, but tend not to use their phone to manage a datebook, or to-do list or manage a project or do the kinds of things we can do on our Palm OS PDA.

Palm's core customer is not feeling the love, but is feeling left out in the cold.

I would actually prefer to have a Treo without a touchscreen. And the pricepoint is where it should be... for the mass market. Its A Good Thing, people! If you don't like don't buy it. But I am very excited at the prospect of many more people entering the world of mobile computing/mobile internet. Not everyone wants to blow a lot of cash on a phone: that doesn't mean they wouldn't use the features if available. Its about time the Treo entered the commodity market. For those who wanted a Palm OS, obviously it would take a lot more to time and money to optimize for non-touchscreen and Windows Mobile already has done it (in their kludgy way but it works).

So, I went out and did it - after several years of faithful palm use, I got an iPhone. I had a Treo 650 and waited and waited for Palm to get off its ass and put something for the next generation out. As usual, Apple had to do it for them. In fact, Apple did it for everybody. After having played with the iPhone for a few days I can confidently say that there is nothing else out there even close to being in its class. Apple was bold enough to really cut loose on a new UI, and they nailed it. They really have developed not only a new style of smartphone, but a new more satisfying way of interacting with a computer. While there have been touch screens for a long time, they are made completely obsolete by the multi-touch screens fluid user interface. The 3" screen is beautiful. Trading keyboard real estate for screen real estate is the way to go. The iPhone onscreen keyboard works just fine. The safari web browser on the iPhone is absolutely amazing. I pretty much don't have to turn on my laptop when I get home anymore, because I now browse the web and stay up on everything throughout the day on my iPhone instead. Take all of that, and add 8 gigs of memory (the 650's 32 MB is a joke) and the best mobile media player anywhere on the market, and you have something that Palm could have done, and should have done, but will never do. I have had it with Palm. The iPhone is nearly perfect. Goodbye Treonauts.

Yes, Eric Actually HTC Iris.

earl e adopter
Why should Palm enter commodity market?
It would make sense if they had their own platform and could compete on price/platform.
But it does not make sense if, like all other Windows Mobile purveyors, they are selling the same thing as the next HTC customer.
HTC who is now also selling its product under its own name.

The Windows Mobile brands (Compaq, Dell, Palm, HP) will all go the same way as the Windows PC brand => down the drain, because they are all selling the same thing without added value.
The branded Windows PC companied have all switched to services (except DELL, but DELL is not doing great these days), because they cannot compete on price with the real commodities manufacturers.

"The iPhone is nearly perfect."

Sure, sure. Just two words: "Custom software". Oh, you can't use any software on the iPhone? Too bad.

IF THIS NEW 500 Treo had only WIFI I would forgive it the absence of a touchscreen... It is absoltutly ashame to sell a PDA ( not yet a smartphone) without WIFI ... WAKE UP PALM please you will loose millions of faithfull Palm old friends... Oh my God how can you be so narrow minded how do you imagine redaching a populr audienced ( mostly young people without WIFI.. ) whedn Apple is winning the battle over coffee shop HOT SPOT !
The Palm CEO should go away and sell hamburgers and not communication devices... I mean it !