Setting The Treo Record Straight

Your comments are right on the money. The fact is that Palm (Handspring?) hit on a near perfect physical design and Palm has been careful not to change it too much. I both agree with and respect that. In fact it is this design that is largely responsible for Treo still being a player years after it's initial launch (treo 600).

To me it is has always been more of a what's inside the device that shows it's age. If I can get a newly revamped UI with a fresher look/feel, WiFi, Better Bluetooth, WIFI (had to say it twice!) I'd be a very happy camper. Oh yeah, another thing, how about Palm really wow the insustry by putting a micro hard drive in a Treo!! That'll make some people sit up and take notice!!

16GB in a Treo... I get woosy just thinking about it...

There is no CDMA 750...

Ooops... Thanks Nate - I've corrected this... The question now obviously is "where the hell is the WM Treo 750 gone!?"...

Cheers, A.

To me it has become a combination of

- Aging OS: for the end user, the features, consistency and reliability that entails.

- Boring out of the box feature set and by extension lackluster marketing

Others have changed hardware designs or come up with new ones, added more lifestyle oriented features and frankly done a better job of making the phone fit with the user's lives (as opposed to just career).

Palm have steadfastly staid with productivity as reflected in the Treo's features, total belief in Foleo and marketing messages. Only recently did the marketing mention IM (Google Maps before that) all via 3rd party apps. Yet we all know, and most of us get, media and entertainment software for our Treo's, the top selling non-utility is Core Player. Why are utilities the top selling apps? Think about it, then you'll see how poor Palm is at updating or adapting their OS.

So whilst others have caught up a bit in productivity (I think the Treo still wins) most of the market has successfully shifted emphasis and focus to lifestyle - an area that the Treo fails at out of the box.

Thats for new Treonauts.

We old skool Treonauts love our Treos but I can see from various forums, blogs like this one and meeting other Treonauts that patience is running out.

I think about it like this...a friend asks you to show them your phone. If you were restricted to out of the box features what would you want to show? And if it was a business colleage? See the difference? Now think about who's reaction you would prefer to be positive? See? Lifestyle wins 9/10 times because thats what we really care about. And if you'd prefer the business colleague to like your phone more than your friends... get a life.

Your list of what we want covers most common bases and contains some great suggestions as to how to achieve the most important goals of all (taking for granted it does productivity, yawn):

- We want to be IN LOVE with our Treos

(again...)

Thanks Rick - I certainly agree with you on the UI which will naturally be the first thing to be revamped once Palm finally release their Linux OS. On the microdrive front however I personally still feel that an SD card slot is more than adequate and actually provides better future-proofing. I currently have multiple 8GB SDHC cards on my Treo 680 and will shortly be upgrading this to a 16GB or 32GB SDHC card when they become more widely available.

Cheers, A.

Overall I think this is a good article making some good points, but the question(s) I ask every time I see someone dismiss the iPhone touch-keyboard is:

a) Have you used it yourself? (not "I've used a touchscreen keyboard on another device" but an actual iPhone)

b) If so, how long did you use it for? Minutes? Hours? Days?

As a Treo 650 owner for 18 months and an iPhone owner for 2, I can say that my typing skills are no worse on the iPhone, plus the iPhone has a very intelligent auto-correction feature that the Treo doesn't have.

I've read a lot of article dismissing the iPhone keyboard by people who have never used it, or used it for 5 minutes. Apple has publicly said that it will take about a week or so before people get used to it.

2+ months since release and I have not heard complaints from iPhone users about the keyboard.

The new Centro keyboard has already been described as "unusable" by either Engadget or Ars due to its smaller size.

Palm is refusing to speculate on when the Linux based OS will be ready, but if they dumped the Foleo to focus on it, you know it's not nearly ready. 2008 or 2009 is now the word on the street.

As far as WiFi, Palm recently fired almost everyone on the WiFi team, so I don't expect to see WiFi popping up any time soon.

And as far as a "total experience" goes, iPhone beats the Treo by miles. I'm actually enjoying watching video on it. CorePlayer on the Treo is a buggy joke.

The biggest oversight that I see is that you didn't even mention web browsing. I've started leaving my laptop at the office at night and just use my iPhone for any email/web surfing that I might want to do. I never would have considered doing that with the Treo. Someone aptly joked that sticking fondue forks in your eyes is more pleasurable than using Blazer.

In fact my biggest concern when moving to the iPhone was that I often used my Treo as a modem for my laptop, and I knew that the iPhone would not support that (at least officially. It can be done, and I've seen it work). But in practice I don't find myself wanting to use the laptop in the car when I can just use the iPhone.

I was talking with a fairly knowledgable sales guy at the local ATT store and he thought that for most people who have Internet access at work and who pay $20/month for dialup internet at home, the iPhone was a much better solution, because they could take it with them everywhere. At first I thought he was nuts, but after a couple months I can see his point.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see the Palm/Treo line improve and flourish. I used it for ~6.5 years (Palm IIIxe, Treo 300/600/650). However I think it's going to take a major miracle at this point.

TjL - I do have my own iPhone which I have tested since the first week of July so my take on the lack of a physical keyboard comes from proper experience. I specifically wanted my post to focus on hardware issues and this is why I have not raised more in-depth software issues such as the browser (undoubtedly much better on the iPhone). Also, Dial Up Networking (DUN) on a Treo is definitely superior.

Separately, I think that you will find that the Centro keyboard is a lot more usable than one early report suggested.

Cheers, A.

Every device has a core group they market toward. If possible they try to hit others but you never want to lose your core market. For Palm, that core market is business users. The iPhone is a great, groundbreaking device (from what i've seen i'd prefer Safari to Blazer anyday) but it has a predominantly entertainment (web, videos, music, etc..) focus. While admittetly old, it is important to note that there are some things (Docs to Go, Outlook Integration, Versamail) that our Treo does pretty well. As for out of the box... I think the very best thing about Palm is that you aren't limited to out of the box. No matter how great the designers are, they won't make a device that can do everything for everyone. When Jobs figures that out and opens up the iPhone a little more for developers I'll be really worried...

Having been a Palm user for a long time (started right after my Newton died!) the most frustrating aspect of the OS is that it still does not multi-task: Only one application can be open at a time. Moving among applications is thus "klunky." This archaic aspect of the Palm OS must change.
As a current Treo 650 owner I have been waiting for a LONG time for Verizon's next offering- Are you listening Palm and Verizon??

Hooray, and absolutely right! While we're living in a world where we expect the absolute coolest from a company who's set their own bar REALLY high, I can tell you that if you want to be able to use your phone as a mini-computer/business tool, the Palm still has the biggest wow factor out there.

I'm always amazed at the people sitting next to me in a meeting or a plane while I'm reading an e-book or working on a presentation, or checking my email, or googlemapping where I'm going to go step-by-step. They're amazed, they want what I've got, and that includes the iphone user, the blackberry user--all of them.

Palm has been so far ahead of the game that when the rest are finally catching up, we're getting impatient. Cut 'em a break. The economy is kicking everybody's butt, and I'm sure they're not immune either. It's easy to make the big flashy moves when you know that everyone and their brother will shell out several hundred dollars easily---but in today's times, we're all circling our wagons and going a littler more cautiously on upgrades when our current model is so darned good.

Am I the only one who misses writing w/ a stylus on the screen instead of using a keyboard? Business length fingernails look good, but they're hell on accuracy.

So there.

Just my opinion, oughtta be yours.

Lyn

Andrew,

I don't think that you can leave out Linux as a major smartphone OS available today. While Linux is not yet popular in the U.S. or in Europe, Motorola has had success with its linux-based smartphones in Asia.

Of course, Palm Linux will be a game changer as well.

Rome - I agree but my post was taking a US-centric view where as you point out Linux has not yet had an impact. Palm Linux will hopefully dramatically change this next year.

Cheers, A.

I don't understand...:
Treo 500v annonced last week and Palm Centro are not the same ??? I don't see any difference.

Vincent - the Treo 500v is a Windows Mobile non-touchscreen 320x240 smartphone with a full keyboard while the forthcoming Palm Centro is a PalmOS smartphone with a smaller square touchscreen 320x320 and also a smaller keyboard. They do share the same overall design and this may be why it's confusing.

Cheers, A.

I think you make some very good points. My only issue is how you label the first category of devices. I wouldn't say that category has a large touchscreen. It would be better label that category as having a medium touchscreen with the second category accurately being labeled as large touchscreen. The screen size of the smartphones with a slide out QWERTY keyboard is probably 2x the size of the screens with the candybar style design with a QWERTY keyboard.

I'm not so disappointed with Palm's lack of changes from the hardware point of view. I'm most disappointed with the lack of innovation in software. The cool thing about the iPhone for me is a combination of the multi-touch screen and software.

Palm has been timid with each subsequent device since the Treo 600 has been released. I guess they kind of went out on a limb when they introduced Treo smartphones running Windows Mobile.

I really want to see better OS/UI from Palm, and continued attention to slimming the hardware (when possible) is good too. They seem to be going that direction with hardware, and we'll have to wait to find out what they do with the software. Though I agree with the Brighthand editorial, that Palm taking 12+ months to release the Linux based OS is way too long.

Andrew,

I read your entire post and I do agree on the overall jest, as pretty much implying that from all the Smartphones out there, Palm is the closest one to "perfection". However, this statement was alos made back when the 600 came out... and that's pretty much it for Palm's innovation. The rest has been catching up with the rest of the industry that they once were leading.

However one has to also bring to mind that the average consumer will go for looks first, then for features. We the hardcore fans are of a different breed, thus we are happy to see a device that has the functionality we want, and then we look at the form factor as in "it's big but not by that much". We are the small percentage unfortunately.

The problems with Palm are two-fold as I see it:

- The form factor. Many companies came out with new form-factors and the market spoke: people dig slim devices that have less functionality than say, a "big-boned" Treo (let's just not call it fat). Palm failed to address this on a timely manner and up until now they had nothing. The 500 series will try to address this space but it may be late as there is truly 0 innovation in other fronts to draw attention from other competing devices.

- The stagnated feature set. It is sad but true, that the latest Treo phones have the exact same features (or marginal improvements) the original 600 had. If anything improved where the radios, screen and the camera, but after that nothing. You may shave off the antenna but you still don't have a bigger keyboard, WiFi (for crying out loud!), a high end camera, a USB interface (500 being a small, tiny exception), Bluetooth 2.0 (with A2DP)... the list goes on. MANY other new devices are offering these features somewhat standard. Palm has just started but it is the big question if it will be enough to really get back into the game.

Perhaps something you and we all fail to address is that, in a somewhat unfair way, we expect Palm to come up with an ASTONISHING new device in the very near term. We, the market, have not asked that from any other manufacturer up this day, and perhaps that's why "under the radar" HTC was able to innovate so much and Apple was able to pull-off the iPhone move. Just imagine, Apple only needs to add 3G to the iPhone to make it more successfull than it already is. For Palm we DEMAND 3G as standard and then we ask some. The bar is set quite high, but Palm also helped it to be that high by not innovating earlier.

Just my two cents to your already great blog entry.

Andrew,

You seem to have completely overlooked the HTC line of phones. I have a PPC-6800 which is smaller, lighter, has a bigger touch-screen, and a huge slide out qwerty keyboard and the damn thing has WiFi.

I won't knock the Treo too much as I've owned two of them (600 and 700wx) and they were both great phones (for the reasons you stated). But it's still past tense. When I hear about stuff that HTC/Nokia are coming out with, I get excited. Though I'm not a fan of the iPhone, those specs get me excited.

When I hear about the latest Treo news, I hope they cancel the project. All of the new choices coming out from other lines, I see a progression in usability, formfactor, and features. Treo comes out with a small laptop that has restricted features that no one wanted (smartphones are supposed to act like your laptop anyway), they come out with a new line of phones that aren't as advanced as their own last generation of phones, and everything they have coming on the horizon looks like they are just trying to catchup to everyone else; not surpass.

I'm sorry, but when everyone else is making Porshes, it's hard to get excited about the new VW Bug that Treo is sporting.

waldo15 - thanks for adding your comment. Among your many valid points I think that the one that you make about "people want slim devices even if they have to sacrifice functionality" is the most important. Palm indeed needs to see that the market wants slim and light devices and they'll need to design smartphones that compromise along this key line. I'm certainly curious to see if the Centro will manage to fill this spot.

Cheers, A.

At pocketbusinesstools.com we have designed our mobile business tool product around the Palm Os Treo with it's larger screen area.

When doing invoices or estimates on your mobile device the extra room really makes the difference.

Rhett

I was a Palm Treo fan. That is, until I spent the big money on the 700p, only to have Palm take over a year to come out with fixes for some major issues. I won't rehearse those as most of you are probably well versed in that. I now use the Sprint Mogul. It's funny that your comments indicate "that I concluded some time ago that sliding keyboard devices are just too large, heavy and cumbersome for my use." Wow. I cannot imagine how you can say that, when my Mogul is just as small and light as my Treo 700p. Oh, I still have to use a 700p supplied by work, and I can also tell you that I don't know I'd call my Treo's screen large when comparing to the Mogul's beautful piece of real estate. Add to that the fact that it runs an OS that allows multitasking, and to me there is no comparison. Believe me, I wish Palm would get there act together, support their products properly, and come out with an OS that will blow WinMo away. It wouldn't take much because I don't think WinMo is that great, but it is more robust than Palm OS right now. I'm not ruling Palm out forever, but it's going to take some doing for them to win me back now. I've still got the bitter taste of the 700p in my mouth...

Maybe Andrew has realized that all the Palm criticism is fully justified, it seems like there are a lot more posts now that are negative about Palm.

[This comment has been edited.]

Pilot17, I don't think Andrew is banning anyone since your message and my message just previous to yours is posted.

Well, it's your blog so (obviously) you can say what you like - but...
First of all we'll have to overlook your obvious Palm OS over WM bias. I have a drawer full of Palms. Even a couple of Samsung Palm OS phones. None of these had keyboads and I didn't mind. These days, however I carry a Treo 700wx. I made the switch because I make my living configuring, selling, installing and maitaining Microsoft software. Most of my data entry is address book additions and I'm as likely to use a stylus as the keyboard.

I've been using WM for a year now and frankly it would take something extremely exciting to get me to switch back. Face it. The development effort is behind WM and the application gap is growing. Palm OS is quick, efficient, single-threaded and showing its age. Admit it. Even die-hard Palm fans are waiting breathlessly for a Linux upgrade.

It's amusing that of the five format categories that you have created (there are other ways to divide them up) you immediately dismiss two. The two that you don't even want to consider are the two that are outside of Palm's product line.

I use my Treo with two hands. There. I've said it. Quite the admission of guilt. Does that mean that I'm allowed to consider a phone like the HTC Mogul? Wi-Fi, more RAM and a keyboard that I can use more easily. Oh, and a larger screen. Portrait and landscape. And no bigger in my pocket than my Treo.

Forget the HTC Touch. Better yet forget the upcoming (November release) Sprint Touch with even more memory, wi-fi, and apparently GPS.

I'd like to wait and see what the 800 will have. My big concern is that Palm has released a Palm-OS GSM model, a WM5-OS GSM model and a Palm-OS CDMA model since the 700wx. That means that either the 800 is going to be a 755p running WM6 or a complete leap.

Frankly, based on history the greap leap is unlikely before the Linux model is ready. (The following statistics do not include the Treo 500.) Palm has averaged 110 days between product releases between the 700w and the 755p. Since the release of the 680, the time between releases has doubled for each subsequent model. A trend? I hope not. If it were, we could expect the 800 in late July of 2008.

Frankly, I think that it would be in Palm's best interest to leak a little bit about the 800 if it's going to be a real market share retainer. I might wait for it. If I don't hear anything by Fall, though, I might just start trying out some of the alternatives.

This is an interesting compilation from Andrews. Well Done - Although it is bias as usual, it shows some facts. Some of the comments highlighted are very good feedback for Palm to consider. As a Palm OS user for YEARS, I subscribe to the view that I as well wish to see more from the UI and tiny useful applications to perform some daily tasks. "I am not interested with a 16GB or 32GB of SD", giving me more bytes will not accomplish my daily tasks.

I disagree with Andrews that Palm should consider filling the gap with new devices (treo 980s). Looking back at Palm, the devices, the industry, it would be somehow a repeat Foleo, Samsung has flooded the market with all types of devices, are they capturing new markets shares. On the other hand, Nokia has done well in this area - this is mainly because of the OS is adaptive for all the phones.

Choosing a PDA is a daunting task, but the one thing that Andrews did not mention is the "Amazing after sales service - support that Palm offers to their customers" for both hardware & software - The new Live Web Support is a new addition, but again - the friendly use of an OS will determine how much support should the manufacture provide?

will continue later..

A Palm user from Mauritius Island / Munir

Well, this was a nice political "save". However, the fact remains that as an earlier poster said, Palm raised it's own bar HIGH. Now, we expect nothing but the best in feature-set and form factor.

Still, my 700p is a joke. It's like that drunk cousin that shows up at all the family gatherings dressed to kill but, just has issues and everybody knows it.

There is no *real* rival to palm when you go head-to-head. But, we have HTC nipping at our heals with it's 600 series and Blackberry has spruced up so much that I'm seriously looking it's way. So, if Palm wants to stay in the game, it has to come to the table with more than a "wave offering". Wave Offering = I don't have it all together right now but I'll hit 'cha with this lil bit of "some some" and holla at 'cha layta when I have the real deal.